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|DRC| psycheus






Saturday, October 1 2011, 14:19:20 #43787     https://occupywallst.org/


Get the $$$ out of elections and politics.. this site is worth a read if you haven't already heard about this movement..

https://occupywallst.org/
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|DRC| Iceman






Wednesday, November 2 2011, 22:18:10 #43831     


Its a noble thing people are trying to do, but it runs too deep. In order to truly solve the problems they want, they really need to change the way people think and live their lives. Not to be negative (Just a realist here) but unfortunately the chances of that are slim to none. Even if the Government implements laws to appease the public and try to show the people that they are 'trying' to stop lobbying, it will still continue off the books. In today's economic world, the majority of all economies are classified as 'mixed' (with the exception of only a couple), and the hard truth is that greed prevails.

Even if a civil war started, and overthrew the Government, eventually after everything is over, they would have to elect politicians to implement laws and run the Country. Hence, the cycle begins again.

It's a noble cause, and I agree with what people are trying to accomplish, but it really is not going to change anything in the long term. The common folk will always be the 99% and wealthy 1% will always rule (sadly).

The only way I can think of that would 'temporarily' fix the problem, is to follow the communism model, and have everyone be 'equal' and make the same amount of money. The problem with communism is that it also fails because of greed (eventually). People in society want to be recognized for their contributions to society through their work by being compensated to what 'they feel' is warranted. Example: No Doctor would want to go to medical school for 10 years, and hold a high position in society, but make the same wage (or not much more) than someone who they would consider to have a 'menial job'.

In today's day and age, I really think people need to set their priorities, and create their own little circle. If people can figure out how to go through life with few problems, and look after those in their circle then life will be as good as they can make it. Sure, it's not the greatest solution to resolve every problem, but it will help that individual focus their efforts on the matters that is really important in their lives. Everything outside the circle they don't have control over, so people have to do what they can to minimize collateral damage of the outside effecting their inner circle.

It's late, so I am not sure if I have explained it the way I am thinking it, but it makes sense in my head Very happy
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|DRC| Messiah






Thursday, November 3 2011, 08:20:24 #43832     


|DRC| Iceman wrote:


The only way I can think of that would 'temporarily' fix the problem, is to follow the communism model, and have everyone be 'equal' and make the same amount of money. The problem with communism is that it also fails because of greed (eventually). People in society want to be recognized for their contributions to society through their work by being compensated to what 'they feel' is warranted. Example: No Doctor would want to go to medical school for 10 years, and hold a high position in society, but make the same wage (or not much more) than someone who they would consider to have a 'menial job'.


Really?!?!
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|DRC| Blackshark






Friday, November 4 2011, 09:15:14 #43835     


|DRC| Iceman wrote:

The only way I can think of that would 'temporarily' fix the problem, is to follow the communism model, and have everyone be 'equal' and make the same amount of money. The problem with communism is that it also fails because of greed (eventually). People in society want to be recognized for their contributions to society through their work by being compensated to what 'they feel' is warranted. Example: No Doctor would want to go to medical school for 10 years, and hold a high position in society, but make the same wage (or not much more) than someone who they would consider to have a 'menial job'.


And there is the problem all over again. The communism model has the same monetary system in place as the democratic/capitalism models have. Meaning it is designed to fail.

Imagine a world (not a communistic system) where everyone had access to all needed goods. No matter what job the person would contribute to society. In our world with only few exceptions we work to earn currency. The more currency you have the greater your chance of improving or maintaining your needs and luxuries. Greed comes into play to stockpile the money.

Another factor is to keep that broken system running they introduced planned obsolescence. Meaning most thing break intentional or are intentionally designed poorly. Companies like Apple, Samsung, Panasonic, Siemens, Sony... and almost everybody else do this because they want to survive. Lets say we would need to replace stuff only for the sake of technological advancements and not because it simply doesn't work anymore. Then everyone doesn't have to buy new stuff every couple years because the old one simple doesn't work.
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|DRC| Iceman






Friday, November 4 2011, 15:11:01 #43836     


Blackshark, I like the concept. Implementation would be difficult though with the way companies/organizations are set up today (based on the monetary system). The challenge would be to figure out how to manufacture goods without currency. Although, people could work and be paid in goods/services by the company they are employed with. Eventually I think there would be problems once everyone acquired all the goods they needed.

Given that the world economies are so intertwined now based on a monetary system, I think that would be one of the greatest challenges which would also effect imports/exports. Imports/Exports would have to decrease and Countries would have to become more self reliant (not a bad thing for sure), unless other Countries followed suite. The lack of imports/exports would also be difficult to get around.

Another potential issue (monetary driven) is that most major companies need public funding (i.e. shareholders) who are looking for a return on their investments into companies. If companies did not go public and have outside funding, there would be a massive decrease in companies that would be able to function, no doubt resulting in loss of jobs, or only a few companies that would hold market share, and monopolize their markets.

The world is truly a Global Village today which makes it difficult to make major system changes. Some great 'outside the box' thinking though Good
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|DRC| Iceman






Friday, November 4 2011, 15:15:10 #43837     


|DRC| Messiah wrote:
|DRC| Iceman wrote:


The only way I can think of that would 'temporarily' fix the problem, is to follow the communism model, and have everyone be 'equal' and make the same amount of money. The problem with communism is that it also fails because of greed (eventually). People in society want to be recognized for their contributions to society through their work by being compensated to what 'they feel' is warranted. Example: No Doctor would want to go to medical school for 10 years, and hold a high position in society, but make the same wage (or not much more) than someone who they would consider to have a 'menial job'.


Really?!?!


Great to see there are good Samaritans out there like yourself. When you get your first minimum wage paycheck I am sure there are a lot of organizations that would like a donation.
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|DRC| Wartex






Friday, November 4 2011, 20:29:34 #43838     


Messiah I'll have to side with Ice on this one, because capitalism by definition is there to drown the poor even deeper into poverty. The basic principle is that rich have disposable income to loan to poor with interest, generating net loss for the poor and net income for the rich. It's a no-brainer. US is in debt because that is exactly what they are doing.

The communism you were presented by US media is the ugly side of communism that actually happened in Soviet Union, but you have never seen the other side. During communism there was absolutely no option of you losing a roof because of non-payment to a bank, everyone had jobs and everyone had top notch education, doctors, surgeries were 100% free, dentists were free, school and university was free, fuck, universities paid YOU if you had good grades, vacations were 30 days and not 1/2 weeks, transportation was abundant and free, everyone had a level playing field. No one could buy a shitload of real estate and then charge thru the ass for it. In fact, government gave away condos to people for free. I'm not shitting you. We went to space first, after the country was ravaged by war FFS!

Now lets take USA: who do you think has a better chance of success in life: you going to a shitty uni with a mountain of debt in student loans, or a kid of an oil magnate who is born into an ivy league school with best private home educators? Capitalism is ideal if everyone starts with the same *capital*, but the fact of the matter that nobody ever does, and that is by design. If there is no upward flow of money, capitalism fails.

Communism fails over time because of corruption, capitalism on the other side has already failed from the get go, because corruption is rewarded and celebrated in capitalism, corruption is built into capitalism. To worsen things, current state in USA is neo-fascist corporatism and not capitalism. Your military and police can turn on your general public on the slightest whim of your government and suppress any disturbances. The public becomes the enemy the moment the government is questioned, they pass it off as being "unpatriotic". In fact, patriotism (you know, flags in classrooms, pledge of allegiance, prayer before dinner, americans are the best etc) and religion is bullshit you are being fed thru the very early childhood so that you become an obedient worker - this is exactly what nazi Germany did, absolutely the same.

Do you know the motto of soviet communism? This is what is really was: It's "everyone should contribute to the best of their ability and should receive to the fullest of their needs". Ask any soviet immigrant. Roof, education and medicine are basic needs that were provided for free. In capitalism, you pay for all three (except some shitty govt medicare you got going, you have to be dirt broke to get it tho) REGARDLESS if you are capable of earning.

Do you know the motto of capitalism? "Everyone should contribute to the best of their ability for as cheap as possible. If they need anything, they are free to buy it with their money".

Canadian and Swedish socialism is the happy (but not perfect) medium where private property and huge earnings is allowed AND you don't get shafted if you are poor.

The basic requirement for successful progression of humankind is mutual assistance. Capitalism strictly prohibits this. Vast majority of americans think it's a wild idea to lose part of income to provide for less fortunate, that is until they go broke themselves and start leeching the welfare and various social programs. This is exact same hipocricy as people protesting against abortions and then having an abortion in a private clinic because their kid will have down syndrome. These are the same people who vote against universal healthcare until they get cancer and sell their house to pay for chemo.

Communism will never work until there is no greedy fuckers left (there is hope for future, advanced generations). Capitalism will always work in favour of corrupt and greedy fucks because it's designed for that - building capital. Socialism actually works NOW, as you can see constant influx of immigrants into Canada.

Don't knock things you have not analysed.
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|DRC| Iceman






Friday, November 4 2011, 22:17:06 #43839     


An interesting fact is that there are no more "pure" forms of what most know as Capitalism, Socialism, and/or Communism. They used to exist, but I found out in my economics course that they no longer "truly" exist, yet people still refer to them by name (mostly because it is what people are familiar with and have used in the past). Almost all Countries (with a couple of exemptions North Korea, and one other Country I can't seem to recall right now) now have what economist refer to as 'mixed' economies.

A 'pure' Capitalist economic system is based on a 'true' free market, where 'only' people influence the market, and Government has little to no influence. People refer to the USA as having a 'free market' but the reality is that it has not really been a free market for quite some time, as the Government does control aspects of it. The same goes for Canada and what most people refer to it as being a Socialist Government. Canada is also now considered to be a 'mixed' economy as is the majority of the Countries in the world.

Economics now is not like it used to be. It is extremely complex with so many Countries invested and being stake holders in each other, that there is no easy solution. Every Country has their own problems, but the real problem is that their problems actually effect other Countries because everything is so inter-linked with one another. The result is that one Countries problems become everyone's problems that are stake holders in those Countries, and can still effect other Countries that are not directly involved.

To try to simplify and put into different terms its similar to a pyramid of domino's lined up on the floor. All domino's are eventually impacted by another, but some domino's can have impact on multiple (depending on how they are set up) domino's at the same time. Then there are the domino's that don't work and the chain breaks (these would be your closed Countries that are self contained for the most part). In real life even the closed Countries would be impacted in some small way, but not as drastic as everyone that is intertwined with each other.

I have always thought that Countries should depend on themselves, and minimize involving other Countries. After learning more about how things are interlinked, I realized that it would not be so easy to it. I do think that a good start would be to put more stringent restrictions on large Companies to stop outsourcing work to other Countries. There are positives and negatives to this, but I think the positives would outweigh the negatives in the 'long term' once all the short term aches are over. More jobs would be created, but costs would be higher because of labor/benefits etc; The more jobs that are created the better the economy will be, but the cost of living will increase because more people have more money to spend. So for those making minimum wage or a lower wage than the average guy, they will end up having a more difficult time to make ends meet, and pay their bills. This is actually in the process of happening here in Halifax. Just recently they announced that JD Irving will get a Ship Building Contract which will be good for the next 25-30 years. While this is great to generate revenue for small businesses, it will make life more difficult for the poor. Mark my words, rent, real estate, groceries, utilities, and goods that we would generally buy will increase. Why? More people coming here, and making a higher wage will have the money to spend. When companies recognize that they can make more money, they will start increasing their prices. Competition will help to keep things in check some, but it won't help much when everyone starts raising prices. Things are about to get a whole lot more expensive here.

Check back at this post in 5-10 years and see if I am right. Right now a loaf of bread is around $3.00 (CAD) and a 4 liter container of Milk is about $5.50 (CAD). Should be interesting to see how much they will be in a few years time.
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|DRC| Messiah






Tuesday, November 8 2011, 15:04:32 #43843     


|DRC| Wartex wrote:
Messiah I'll have to side with Ice on this one, because capitalism by definition is there to drown the poor even deeper into poverty. The basic principle is that rich have disposable income to loan to poor with interest, generating net loss for the poor and net income for the rich. It's a no-brainer. US is in debt because that is exactly what they are doing.

The communism you were presented by US media is the ugly side of communism that actually happened in Soviet Union, but you have never seen the other side. During communism there was absolutely no option of you losing a roof because of non-payment to a bank, everyone had jobs and everyone had top notch education, doctors, surgeries were 100% free, dentists were free, school and university was free, fuck, universities paid YOU if you had good grades, vacations were 30 days and not 1/2 weeks, transportation was abundant and free, everyone had a level playing field. No one could buy a shitload of real estate and then charge thru the ass for it. In fact, government gave away condos to people for free. I'm not shitting you. We went to space first, after the country was ravaged by war FFS!

Now lets take USA: who do you think has a better chance of success in life: you going to a shitty uni with a mountain of debt in student loans, or a kid of an oil magnate who is born into an ivy league school with best private home educators? Capitalism is ideal if everyone starts with the same *capital*, but the fact of the matter that nobody ever does, and that is by design. If there is no upward flow of money, capitalism fails.

Communism fails over time because of corruption, capitalism on the other side has already failed from the get go, because corruption is rewarded and celebrated in capitalism, corruption is built into capitalism. To worsen things, current state in USA is neo-fascist corporatism and not capitalism. Your military and police can turn on your general public on the slightest whim of your government and suppress any disturbances. The public becomes the enemy the moment the government is questioned, they pass it off as being "unpatriotic". In fact, patriotism (you know, flags in classrooms, pledge of allegiance, prayer before dinner, americans are the best etc) and religion is bullshit you are being fed thru the very early childhood so that you become an obedient worker - this is exactly what nazi Germany did, absolutely the same.

Do you know the motto of soviet communism? This is what is really was: It's "everyone should contribute to the best of their ability and should receive to the fullest of their needs". Ask any soviet immigrant. Roof, education and medicine are basic needs that were provided for free. In capitalism, you pay for all three (except some shitty govt medicare you got going, you have to be dirt broke to get it tho) REGARDLESS if you are capable of earning.

Do you know the motto of capitalism? "Everyone should contribute to the best of their ability for as cheap as possible. If they need anything, they are free to buy it with their money".

Canadian and Swedish socialism is the happy (but not perfect) medium where private property and huge earnings is allowed AND you don't get shafted if you are poor.

The basic requirement for successful progression of humankind is mutual assistance. Capitalism strictly prohibits this. Vast majority of americans think it's a wild idea to lose part of income to provide for less fortunate, that is until they go broke themselves and start leeching the welfare and various social programs. This is exact same hipocricy as people protesting against abortions and then having an abortion in a private clinic because their kid will have down syndrome. These are the same people who vote against universal healthcare until they get cancer and sell their house to pay for chemo.

Communism will never work until there is no greedy fuckers left (there is hope for future, advanced generations). Capitalism will always work in favour of corrupt and greedy fucks because it's designed for that - building capital. Socialism actually works NOW, as you can see constant influx of immigrants into Canada.

Don't knock things you have not analysed.


Acutally, I dont have a lot of time to write a response, but I have studied communism. I took two classes at university about it, studying Karl Marx and The Communist Manifesto, etc.. and I took a economics class examining an communist market place. There is also a reason the pure communist society has always failed. Look at china. It is one of the last powers of communism and yet, they are not a truly communist society. They do have classes just like other countries of power. The only people who suffer in China are the poor. The rich maintain wealth and status and almost live above the law.

I just dont believe communism is an answer. I believe everyone in this country (USA) has the same chance as everyone else. Truth of the matter is most people are products of their environments. Hell, I grew up in one of the poorest areas of Yonkers, NY. We had nothing growing up. But that did not determine what my life was to become. I had motivation and the will to make a better life for myself. Hence, I am where I am. I look back at some of the friends I had growing up, and they didnt have the same drive.

The issue that needs to be addressed is the issue of available resources. Schools in this country, for the most part, are horrible. Education is very expensive and federal aid is being cut all the time. Shit, I pay almost 8,000.00 a semester. Ill being paying it off forever. The model is damaged, but in a democratic society, we have the ability to improve and make changes. Time will tell.
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|DRC| Blackshark






Tuesday, November 8 2011, 16:42:18 #43844     


|DRC| Messiah wrote:
The model is damaged, but in a democratic society, we have the ability to improve and make changes.


That is simply a lie we are living. The people in a democratic system have no power at all. Americans should know that better then anyone.
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|DRC| Wartex






Tuesday, November 8 2011, 20:00:37 #43845     


Messiah I think you are confusing "democracy" and "capitalism." If you think USA has even a drop of legitimate democracy, you are badly mistaken. You know when you go to the polls and fill out the ballot? It means fuck all. You might have a say is some local govt officials, but on a state scale it's all paid for by political interest groups.

Also communism is not limited to Marx and judging it by his teachings is like saying that entire christianity is defined by the bible. Marxism-Leninism is extreme form of communism and russia as a country, never had that form of communism, ever. You might have learned it for 2 years, I lived thru 19 years of it, and studied it from grade 1.

About chances in USA: If you are born sick, or disabled in some way, or have a progressive disease - you are fucked because no one will even insure you and you will pay for healthcare into poverty.

Schools: there are tons of great schools and teachers in USA but they cost a lot of money. We are talking $100K+ a year. I don't know how much you make, buy I guarantee you can not afford a full set of private tutors. The free schools are total shit in USA. They are just so fucking useless. In communism great schools are granted for free to anyone. For example, people from entire SU travelled to moscow to go to Moscow State Uni. MSU has the same quality of education as Harvard or UC system. Math at MSU is fucking so advanced, if you went thru 2 years of math-oriented college in USA and tried to pass entrance exams to 1st year of MSU you will fail faster than Mary Poppins trying to jump off Empire State bldg with a cocktail umbrella.

What you pay for one semester, some people live on that a year. Don't tell me opportunities are the same, that's just fucking delusional. I also like to hear stories about poverty from americans. Unless you lived on $40-100 USD a month for 2 years, you don't know what poverty is, period. US welfare pays something like $900 a month, and basic food is only 1.2X as expensive as in russia, prices are virtually the same. I ate onions, eggs and bread for months when SU collapsed, meat was a delicacy, forget about fruits. In USA driving a rusty dodge shadow to college is considered poverty, in SU it was a luxury.

Yes, you can bust your ass and work 16 hour days to send your kids to a decent school and have a nice car, but that is not equality, it's exploitation. Equality is not just about chance, it's about effort. If you lived in netherlands or sweden, you would be where you are at half the effort you put in with half the debt.

I applaud you for your efforts to become what you are, and I agree that many people blame the system when in reality it's a lack of motivation, but who the fuck is motivated to pay the student loans for 4 decades? Who wants to slave entire life just to retire as a mediocrity? In north america, unless you are making $200K+, you are not living, you are just making just enough to distance yourself from the poverty line, move away from shitty areas and save enough so that you can actually retire and not die on the job.

Every facet of life in US is about profit. Every little need humans have cost money. In socialism and communism you get the basics drawn from the common pool for free, and anything above and beyond you have to work for. You still haven't give me any argument as to why communism is bad. I gave you plenty of reasons why capitalism is bad. Can we have some concrete examples?
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|DRC| Wartex






Tuesday, November 8 2011, 20:25:39 #43846     


PS: China is dictatorship, not communism. SU was the same during Stalin, until "ottepel". You would know what it is if you studied communism.
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|DRC| Iceman






Friday, November 11 2011, 12:05:00 #43847     


Messiah, if you believe that China is currently a communist Country because of what you are learning in school, then your school needs to seriously update their material. The Government plays more of a 'restrictive/regulation' role now instead 'controlling everything'. For example: Go to China and try to access FaceBook. Let me know if your able to login. I already know the answer because I have been there twice and tried myself, and the site is blocked by the Government. Now on the flip side, go try to 'visit' North Korea (just visit), and let me know if you are able to get into the Country as a visitor. Sure, it may be possible to visit, but 'not easily' and not without special circumstances or permission because it is a closed Country. To visit China, I mailed my passport to a 3rd party company in Ottawa, Ontario, paid $75.00, and had it back in my hands within 2 weeks. I have been there twice and going through customs both times they only said "Welcome, enjoy your stay." and signaled me to go through. If your lucky enough to get into North Korea today, let me know about your customs experience "if" they allow you in the country. The last thing I heard was about a Korean born American that was a Journalist (you know, the ones that are usually able to go anywhere without restrictions) and tried to enter North Korea, only to be taken as a prisoner.

The reality is that North America (mostly the USA because of the capitalist background) portrayed Communism as being 'bad or evil' because the rich want to remain rich, and/or get richer. Why would the rich want to share their wealth and/or have their status lowered in society because of others being just as wealthy? They don't. They want to remain at the top of the food chain by themselves.

To summarize what the rich and the media have done is 'brainwash' (for lack of a better term) the general public by feeding everyone propaganda that Communism breeds poverty etc; When the purpose of Communism is simply 'equality'. If being 'equal' is evil, then by American standards, men should only have rights, and women should have none. If your ethnic background is anything other than Caucasian, then with that mind set they should not have rights either. To draw my own conclusions, Communism did not fail; People failed Communism. Why? Plain and simple 'Greed'.

You mentioned that you took two classes in University on Communism. One question: Approx. how much time was spent discussing North American propaganda, and the impacts that it has had on distorting the general public's views? I am going to go out on a limb here, and guess that it might have come up as a topic, but was not doubt brushed aside quickly and there was no to little focus on it. That's because the people who wrote the curriculum want you and others to believe it is how 'they' portray it to be, and the sad part about it is, few people will have the ability to question it themselves, and/or try to learn about it from other non-bias sources. They will just accept it as the 'gospel' and move on in life believing what they were taught was correct.

A prime example of this is "The Nanjing Massacre" in China. In World War 2, Japan invaded Nanjing, China and slaughtered 300,000 innocent civilians including women, children, elderly, infants, and even unborn children were cut out of their mothers wombs and killed along with their mothers. Some people were even buried alive and smothered in their own graves. This 'really' did happen, but it is not even acknowledged in Japanese History books and some to this day deny it happened because they were not taught that it happened in school. The whole city was wiped out, yet according to Japanese History books, it never happened.
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|DRC| Wartex






Friday, November 11 2011, 21:52:43 #43848     


|DRC| Iceman wrote:
One question: Approx. how much time was spent discussing North American propaganda, and the impacts that it has had on distorting the general public's views?


American propaganda? NOOOOOOO WAYYYYYYY! Everyone knows US media paints only the true picture of the state of the country, to this very day! Mr Green
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|DRC| Messiah






Saturday, November 12 2011, 12:11:52 #43849     


Iceman- I lived in china for a month, I am familiar with how the country works. Its a communist controlled country.

Again, I am at work and can not fully respond in the way I want to, But I find it interesting how people from other countries can always shit upon ours, yet still want to come here and reap the benefits. The USA is a full democracy, by the people for the people. People have more control over this country then you realize, because you believe what the media tells you and you see it otherwise. I have lived here my whole life and have seen democracy work and in action. Hence this uprising in manahattan- its people taking to the streets fighting for what they believe in. Where else could you do that? Power of the people is very true in this country. While in other countries, like china, people are afraid to speak out. Anyone remember what happened outside the forbidden city in tiananmen square, china?

On a side note, i believe in many aspects of communism. The theory is a good one and is meant to have a good outcome. Sadly, like the bible, people misinterpret and only do what they want to do, because that is how they see it. Similar to what this thread is representing at this point.
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|DRC| Iceman






Saturday, November 12 2011, 18:34:29 #43850     


|DRC| Wartex wrote:
|DRC| Iceman wrote:
One question: Approx. how much time was spent discussing North American propaganda, and the impacts that it has had on distorting the general public's views?


American propaganda? NOOOOOOO WAYYYYYYY! Everyone knows US media paints only the true picture of the state of the country, to this very day! Mr Green


It's amazing what people will believe. I remember seeing a re-run of an American TV ad on Communism that they were playing during World War II. It basically made it look like everyone was slaving away in the fields, had no food, and had to do what they were told 'or they would die' impression. I remember laughing at the ad and wondering what moron came up with that idea. The only thing it really accomplished is that it made the media look very uneducated. I think you could have ran an a TV with 'Look the sky is falling!' and people would have ran out in the streets screaming thinking that world was going to end. Just like Orson Welles created a panic with 'The War of the Worlds' radio drama during the War. Suggestion - Don't forget to take your rail gun to bed with you in case the Alien's invade! ROFL

Just like the USA won the war in Vietnam and 'stopped the red' from moving into the Country! I believe that was something similar to what JFK said?

Messiah - I won't pretend to know everything about China because I don't, but I do know that I have lived there for 1 1/2 months in total, and my wife is Chinese (born in China) and lived there her whole life and lived through the end of the cultural revolution so she has a lot more knowledge the Country and how things work than myself. I only know what I have experienced and have seen with my own eyes. I do know what happened in Tienanmen Square, Beijing, and have been there along with The Forbidden City. I don't condone the Government's actions or support what they did to those innocent students and protestors, but things are A LOT different now then they were back in 1989. Back then if a person was to criticize the Government, they would be persecuted. Today, China is A LOT more open and the Government treats people similar as they would in North America. Example: If there are demonstrations the Government will send out police to regulate and control the protestors so they don't destroy things, but we do that here so does that make North America Communist Country as well?

You mentioned that the USA is a 'full democracy'. Just so I understand correctly, what does that term really mean to you as an individual? Can you help me understand 'how' the USA and even Canada for that matter are 'full democracies'? It is an easy statement to say, and to repeat, but if a person really takes the time to look at the facts and analyze 'what really goes on' in our Governments, and then compare against the what the definition of 'democracy' is suppose to be (or what we were taught), it would be interesting to see what people would think afterwards.

'The power of the people' is nothing but a catch phrase that has been sold to the public and they have accepted because 'they believe' they have power. People do have power, but the power is only in LARGE numbers as in Millions of people and not in a couple thousand people. The cause is just, but the end result will not change unless those people are major players in the political systems/financial markets. If they were, they would not be there protesting. A similar but smaller movement has started in Canada as well, and they are just wasting their time. Once they run out of money and have to return to their homes, it will go away even though they are right.
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|DRC| Wartex






Saturday, November 12 2011, 19:32:02 #43851     


|DRC| Messiah wrote:
, But I find it interesting how people from other countries can always shit upon ours, yet still want to come here and reap the benefits.


That's because Americans are easy to exploit for profit. If american companies tried to pull the kind of shit they do but in Russia, their head office would have been blown up and CEO killed. USA is like a workplace for immigrants. I would never live in USA, but I would gladly own a company there. Who the fuck wants half-assed healthcare, bad education and no social programs?

You are under false impression that "people from other countries" want to live there. They don't. People from 3rd world countries like Mexico, eastern Russia and Puerto Rico want to live there. You would be hard pressed to find someone from Netherlands or Germany who is just dying to move to USA, trust me.

People want to live in Sweden and Canada. Look at the immigration rates. USA is just a place where you can fuck a lot of people over and get away with it.
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|DRC| Iceman






Sunday, November 13 2011, 00:17:04 #43852     


Just for the record, I have never been to the US, and never intend on going (even to just visit). If I was working for a Company that wanted me to go, I would go because I had to, and not because I would want to. Quite honestly it would be the very last Country that I would want to live in within the modern world. The Country is beyond broke, corrupt, with very little to offer, especially if you develop a terminal disease like Cancer for example. People bust their asses working their fingers to the bone their whole life to try and build a future, only to end up loosing everything because they can't afford to live. Try to collect insurance from your insurance company for medication after you get cancer. Did you know that insurance companies hire specific people to try and prove that you had a 'pre-existing' condition so they won't have to pay you benefits? I really feel bad for these people, who are good people just trying to build a life for themselves only to have to end up being foreclosed on by a bank because they are trying to pay for their medication. It disgusts me that this happens in today's modern countries. Your only hope is that you have a major stock pile of cash when it comes time to pay for the medical bills, and hope that it doesn't run out (which I would not wish on anyone), or move to another Country which would be the better option in my own opinion.

Canada's health care is not perfect either. Our Doctor's are overworked, and people do abuse the system by running to the Doctor every time they get a common cold, but at least we don't have to go bankrupt if/when we get sick. I think back to a guy who was my friends step father. He developed cancer, and his medication costed $6000/week, but the Government and Military paid for it all except something like $10 (ten dollars) which he had to pay, and received all his treatments, and doctor visits for free (which we all receive here). I don't know how much money you make, but do the math and try to support $6000/week plus pay all your other bills. See how long it is before your money dries up. People can bitch about the taxes we pay here (Personally, I don't bitch about it, and I am glad to pay it), because it does not come for free (nothing does), but when they get sick they don't bitch. They are always the first in line at the Doctor's office for their free check up.

To Wartex's point about Sweden, I have lived there for 2 years and even they are light years ahead of Canada as far as social programs, and education go. I would challenge anyone to go to Sweden and walk the streets asking random people what they have for education, and you will find that the majority of people (realistically a least between 80-90%) of the population has a minimum of a Bachelor Degree in some discipline or is an Engineer of some sort. Most of the people I knew when I was there had a Master Degree in something, and guess what they paid for their education. Nothing monetary, they just bust their asses off in school to get the best marks possible because to get into University there you had to compete against the rest of the applying population in grades. Hence why they are generally higher educated that most North Americans because getting into a University means you have to have good grades and not deep pockets. In North America (especially the USA) you can be illiterate and a half retard and still buy your way into the Ivy league schools like Harvard for example. As long as you have the money they will accept you. From what I have experienced living in Sweden, even Canada could learn a lot from their social systems, and especially their environmental practices - again, light years ahead of anything in North America. If it's not totally bio-degradable, you won't be able to find it on the shelves in stores, or import it into the Country which is a good thing. The simple thing of going and buying a commonly known lubricant like WD-40 in Sweden - You will not find it, but other products that work just as good if not better and safe for the environment. Over 10 years ago their recycling was so advanced with machines in local grocery stores that would scan a bottle and know exactly what type of material it was, sort it accordingly, and would print a slip with a receipt that you could get subtracted off your groceries - Yes, this was over 10 years ago, and even today I have not heard or have I seen anything similar to this in Canada. I can only imagine what they have there now (probably another decade or two ahead of us again). Not to bash the USA, but people really need to open their eyes and see what is out t%here in the world. I understand that the majority of people in the USA feel that they are the center of the world, but if you look at how advanced other Countries are you will soon discover that your great Country is not so great.

For the record, I am not a 'patriotic' person towards Canada either. Just because I reside here, I don't feel that it is 'superior' or the best Country in the world either. I think for myself, and I try to see things how they are and not how I want them to be (i.e. objectively). At the end of the day, facts are facts, and the truth sucks sometimes, but it is what it is. As far as I am concerned Canada can learn a lot from other European and Asian Countries, and should stop relying on other countries more, develop more infrastructure, and put those scamming politicians away in prison where they belong. Instead, our so called leaders do sweet fuck all and continue on with the same old mindset instead of trying to improve, and develop. One of the best things that our leadership has done in the past is put tight restrictions on lending and have done a decent job at controlling that along with inflation to a degree. One thing that I am grateful for is the ability to be able to return back to school tuition free, with 90% of my books paid for, and still pay me unemployment, and a portion of our childcare while I get my education. It's not 100% free, but I am still very grateful for the Government having this program.
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|DRC| Wartex






Saturday, November 19 2011, 09:14:06 #43857     


Student protests at UC Davis, look at all that democracy in action:


Link on YouTube
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|DRC| Blackshark






Saturday, November 19 2011, 10:31:30 #43858     


Shown are two kinds of puppets. But do you see the puppet master? I don't think so.
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|DRC| Messiah






Saturday, November 19 2011, 14:12:04 #43859     


There is no answer to all this as most of this is now back by peoples opinions and what they have been taught to believe. First off, Americans are comprised of every nation on the world. There is not one single person who is not representing another country in the US, so Wartex, your statement that not eveyone wants to come here, is inaccurate. They are already here. Have you ever met a person who has denounced their citizenship from the US? I have, and they regret it. They were under the impression that going elsewhere would be better.

Iceman, Your points are good ones and I would love to respond fully, but sadly, dont have a PC at home and I am limited to quick responses on a work computer. I dont think a quick response is appropriate to answer your points. One point about china though. They have improved, but trying having little money in china and having two children. Not only will you be fined with a ridiculous bill, but you may be forced to run and hide for fear of "appropriate measures" The government only supports the upper class in china. Remember, China only has a few BIG CITIES and the rest are small villages or farms. Even for a communist country, that is sad.

Wartex - You seem hell bent on defaming America, and that is your choice. But understand no system is perfect. The people of the US do have more power than is imagined. We do run this country, We do elect the officials, We do write the laws. We have checks and balances. Although not perfect, they are in place. This country may be prosperous, but we believe in our country. Look at the middle east. They have a lot of money as well and they do not work for the people. If your gay you are killed, if your a women, you must hide yourself. It is a religiously run country. Sadly, America is almost the same in that aspect as people in this country take religion too serious and misinterpret the meaning. Anyway, people are quick to point out the negatives of our country, but yet, have little to say about what does work and has worked. They have little say about the effective we have had on other cultures to help them improve.
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|DRC| Messiah






Saturday, November 19 2011, 14:13:05 #43860     


|DRC| Wartex wrote:
Student protests at UC Davis, look at all that democracy in action:


Link on YouTube



Link on YouTube
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|DRC| Wartex






Saturday, November 19 2011, 23:14:55 #43861     


Lol, gotta love out of context responses. The crimean tatars were displaced after WW2 and some of them deported into many countries (where their predecessors came from) such as Turkey, Bulgaria etc. They were not slaugtered and poisoned and infected with smallpox like american indians. Don't get me started on how you treated indians. Now these people come back and set up camp ANYWHERE on public or private property. Of course this shit doesn't fly with govt. Imagine if Indians or Mexicans started building houses without permits in downtown Austin or Las Vegas. Do you think US wouldn't bulldoze them?

I'm not hellbent on bashing USA, I'm stating the facts. Tell me if I lied anywhere. The country is great, but the government is corrupt to the core and most people are fucking uneducated sheep who can't think for themselves, Ukrainian government ain't got shit on US govt in terms of corruption. In Ukraine bribes are in hundreds of thousands of dollars, in US it's in billions, and they are much, much more damaging to the public. You have NO HEALTHCARE. PERIOD. What you have is an empty shell, and millions are dying every day. This is NOT happening in Ukraine. Fuck, my sister has kidney problems, she goes to Ukraine every time she needs treatment because Canadian doctors are mostly shitty doctors, they treat symptoms and not root cause, and equipment here is fucking obsolete. Have you seen fucking dental equipment in Ukraine? It's all brand new modern Siemens or Phillips, it's not fucking ancient shit (that was built in 80's and is sold as new) we have in hospitals here. Are you aware we had GSM a decade before USA?

You keep saying that you elect people and vote for laws etc: the fact is these cocksuckers are elected BY DEFAULT by corporations, your votes don't mean shit, the voting system is rigged. Did you vote for Cheney or Bush? Shall we go over great recent laws you recently "voted on"?

PATRIOT act - what a crock of shit. Everyone is a terrorist now and AT&T has petabytes and petabytes of illegally recorded phone conversations. Did you vote for this?

TSA checkpoints - did you vote to be groped at the airport with this idiotic security theater that just does not fucking work? Are you aware I flew several times with enough shit in my backpack to make a bomb right on the plane and these idiots TSA could not tell a box of manganese from their ass?

SOPA that you are "voting" on now that will make merely SINGING a copyrighted song a criminal offence.

Are you aware that guantanamo is still active and shit like that would absolutely not fly in Europe?

American media is feeding you shit, and your nation votes based on this, and not critical thinking.

Do you know how fucking hard it is to immigrate to USA because of shitty immigration laws you "voted" on? Did you know that there is a huge influx of americans moving to Canada every day, denouncing your citizenship and not regretting a second of it?

Are you aware that USA has been a major aggressor in the world since WW2 and is a reason for hundreds of wars and millions of innocent people killed to date?

How can you possibly not despise this country? I can tell you how - the same way germans lived in Germany during WW2 nazism. It was all fine and dandy because Hitler told them to love Gemany. You have patriotism so far up your ass that you cannot comprehend how irreparably fucked your country is. You know NOTHING about middle east and it's culture and sound like someone who watched 20 minutes of Fox news and now is an armchair expert on Middle East. Iraq war has caused more death in civilians that stonings in the last 1000 years, please counter that argument!

You talk about stoning but turn a blind eye on the fact that USA has been feeding israel with money to murder palestinians on a daily basis? I know, because my close family members live in middle east. You force circumcision on infants even though it's been deprecated in most of the world as a barbaric ritual and not a medical necessity? Now all good patrotic americans sport a frankendick with an ugly scar around the shaft and a glans that has sensitivity only rivaled by callouses on hobo's feet? And your medical systems tells you "no, it's fine, it's supposed to be this way" and you buy it?

Are you aware that 25% of ALL prisoners on the planet are located in USA jails? USA is far, far from the largest population country. Is that normal?

Me, like Iceman, I have no dumb, naive attachement to any country. It's the people's planet, I don't give a fuck what country to live in, the only reason I moved to canada because my mom happened to marry a canadian and move here. I had a great job in Russia and could have survived just fine. In fact I might go back there if USA starts dragging Canada into the shithole.

Man, until you actually live for a decade or more in a radically different regime, you cannot possibly have ANY valid data to make any comparison. I'm going to stop arguing now because it seems no matter how many points I make, you will find a small and irrelevant event to counter me and continue living in your fairy tale of a reality. You are owned, you are controlled and you THINK you are making a difference in your country, but you are totally irrelevant.

Maybe George Carlin will make a better point, because i give up:


Link on YouTube
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|DRC| Iceman






Tuesday, November 22 2011, 22:20:12 #43867     


I have been itching at the seems to reply to these last couple of posts but haven't been able to find the time (my daughter comes first). Now that she is asleep and I have some time I don't even know where to start! Laughing

@Wartex post 'Police Pepper Spraying Students' - Your right. My understand of 'democracy' is that people are suppose to have 'Feedom of Speech'. How free is a persons speech when they are beat and pepper sprayed by Police because they want to speak out on a topic? In reality, people not only pay the Police wages, but elect the politicians who select the officials and in the end hire the police, yet the people paying their wages can't speak out?? Sounds like FREEDOM OF SPEECH to me! I can understand police 'controlling' a crowd but to remove them because of what they are there for does go against the democracy (as I have learned it anyways). Perhaps the USA has their own version of democracy that is not printed in the dictionary?? That clip reminds me of the military assaulting innocent monks in Burma who were also non-confrontational. Those people were sitting there in a non-agressive state, for police to pepper spay them directly in the face says A LOT about the democracy in the USA to me! Laughing

@Messiah - I am not exactly sure where you get your information (I repeat again, it is out-dated) but China has changed their 1 child policy law. Now you are allowed to have more than 1 child if each person (i.e. the mother and father) are the only children in their family which is the case in most situations as they previously did have a 1 child policy. If a family decides to have more than they are permitted, then yes they are fined, but they are NOT (repeat, NOT) forced to hide and will not be prosecuted with 'appropriate measures'. Again, I am not sure where you heard or read this information, but it is grossly outdated. The Government previously tried to control the population (after Chairman Mao's reign that is) because they were previously over-populated with over 1.5 Billion people. During Chairman Mao's reign he believed the more people you have as a Country the more you will produce and have a stronger Country which did result in the Country being over-populated. Now the Chinese population is aging and with the elderly dying off their population is decreasing (compared to before). To try and maintain a consistent population they have lifted the 1 child restriction. I am not sure where you get your information about the population of China's cities, but my wife is from Fuzhou (South China) which is considered to be one of the smallest (if not smallest) cities in China with a population of over 7.1 Million in a VERY small area, so the population density is very high (i.e. not spread out over a wide area). Walking on the streets there was like I would imagine being in an ant hill. People walking on the streets are almost shoulder to shoulder during busy hours, and it can be difficult to get to where you want to go. I know because I experienced it twice, and even have a video clip of it that I took on my camera because people here would never believe it.

@Wartex and Messiah - I can't really commit on the video Messiah posted because I don't speak Ukraine, and don't know what the situation was there at that time.

@Messiah - I was reading one of Wartex's responses on 'voting' and was wondering if your voting system is the same there as it is here in Canada. Did you know that when we vote here the ballot actually ends up in two pieces because they tear along a preferred edge and give us a paper to take behind a tri-folded cardboard box (for "privacy") so that no one else can see 'who' you voted for, only they already know who we vote for. If you look closely at the ballot you will see two numbers that are the same (i.e. one on the ballot we fill out, and one that they keep, so they match). They have another piece of paper that they keep track of who voted along with the 'ballot' number. If anyone wants to know who we voted for, all they have to do is look up the ballot number, and presto! There is who voted for who! How is that for democracy!? The next time you vote, take a look and see if its on yours in the US. It's on ours here in Canada. The Government makes believe that it is 'anonymous' but the reality is they can look up anyone's vote at any time as the ballot boxes are sealed and kept.

@Wartex - Sorry to hear that your sister has to receive treatment somewhere else. Has she tried getting different opinions? I know your step father is a Doctor, but keep in mind that they are all just human and sometimes different people will view different things in different ways. I have ran into this several times from taking our daughter to different Doctor's and asking questions. I usually just end up researching things myself taking their advice into consideration and doing what I think is right in the end. I have found that people often trust and buy into Doctor's diagnoses too quickly sometimes. Doctor's are (or should be) subject matter experts in their field, but in reality they all make mistakes. Hell, they are so over worked these days trying to meet the demands of the public, and trying to protect their own asses from not being sued that it wouldn't surprise me if they are just trying to get rid of people in their office and get to the next person. Give some generic answer so they don't get sued, and on to the next patient. Could we really blame them though? Quite honestly I don't know how they do what they do, and think they should be paid 10 fold of what they are getting paid in any Country for that matter. Myself, I try to listen to what they have to say and ask questions to understand more about things, then do my own research. The majority of the time I found everything that they have suggested, but sometimes they might not put enough focus on certain things that could take them in a different direction. Your sister might have already tried getting other opinions, but it is some food for thought. I example that I always think about is the movie based on a true story called "Lorenzo's Oil" - If you have not seen it, it is a great movie (drama), and it also makes a person think - Just some food for thought.

@Messiah - Wartex is correct about the GSM Network, and just to add about Philips and Siemens. From my knowledge of working for a 3rd party of AT&T I can tell you that most people that I have dealt with have not only not heard of Siemens for example, but think that that because their phones are not an iPhone they are garbage - Not further from the truth. Both Siemens and Philips are HUGE companies, and make top of the line equipment in almost any field that they pursue. Now if they put the name SONY on it, most of these same idiots would think that it's the cats ass of electronics! Again - Not further from the truth. Having studied Marketing, I can tell you that people in general are fucking morons when it comes to most 'brand names'. The entire population of the consumer world is being controlled to believe what teams of people want them to believe. I could give you tonnes of examples on this, but I have other points that I want to address in this post Smile

@Wartex - TSA is too busy looking at peoples peckers in their body scanners to notice any 'real' bomb material. I would be curious to know just how many TSA employees actually know the materials that make a bomb (I don't know either, so I guess I can't talk, but at least I am not employed by the border either). As long as you put it in your clear bottle and show it to them, they will be more than happy to let you go and not hold up the line. The only they succeed in doing is pissing of the majority of the traveling population. It's quite stupid when you think about it. The USA border authorities will stop you from crossing the border with an open bag of beef jerky, detain you, and grill you in a room like your a terrorist, but as long as meet their 'requirements' at the boarder you are good to go!

@Wartex - Regarding your prison comment - I was not aware of that, but I can't say that it surprises me either! Laughing The really funny part is that people bitch about 'human rights' but do they really know/understand that criminals receive more benefit than the people paying taxes. I don't know about you, but I am not happy about busting my ass to survive in a world and supporting a bunch of degenerates in prisons while they sit back and collect their daily pay, watch TV, and have 3 square meals delivered to them each day. Fuck, if I had my way I would do things the way China used to do them. Make a fucking example out of people, then watch the population in the prisons decrease. They "MIGHT" actually think about committing serious crimes instead of looking forward to a nice warm and cozy cell, knowing that they can repeat the same crime once they get out on good behavior. What a fucking joke. What you do is, you have a nationally publicized event, drag their asses out into a square, put a gun to the back of their head and pull the fucking trigger. No more loss of tax dollars in revenue for supporting them in prison or for their support programs before they commit their next crime, you reduced your crime rate, you created a job, and the best part is that you just put fear into the general public because people NEED to have a degree of fear. A system that uses penitentiaries as a means of creating a deterrent is 'criminal'. Why? It supports it, and creates its own problems, yet the majority seem to believe that it is 'immoral'. I hope they enjoy working to pay for them, because I don't.

@Wartex - That 'George Carlin' video you posted - I couldn't have said it better myself! Laughing It's nice to see someone have the stones to get up in front of the public and speak the truth. They don't get enough truth, just a twisted reality of what the media whats them to believe, and they do.
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Wednesday, November 23 2011, 21:36:16 #43868     


For those of you who want to see America's democracy in action...there is lots to read and view here...

http://wikileaks.org/
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|DRC| Iceman






Wednesday, November 23 2011, 21:46:00 #43869     


Scratch the 'see' part. You used to be able to watch videos but it appears freedom of the press no longer exists in the USA. A while back I watched a clip of an Apache helicopter shooting down civilians (I believe it was a camera crew they 'thought' was the enemy, but was not sure so they shot anyways) while cheering, and laughing. Quite disgusting I might add.
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|DRC| Iceman






Friday, December 2 2011, 16:11:37 #43899     


This is a self-post, so I'm not trying to karma-whore or anything. I have a message I want to share with anyone who's interested.

I'm writing this in hopes that the OWS movement can have a better understanding of the hedge fund industry and the financial markets. With OWS being the zeitgeist of current politics, I think it's important to know how exactly the hedge funds, along with the financial markets are destroying the 99%.

Hedge funds. These guys are basically the vehicles of choice for ultra-rich people to get into the financial markets, besides family offices and private wealth managers. What are hedge funds? They are funds that have a 1-5 million deposit minimum, cater to the mega-rich, and can invest in anything without regulatory restrictions, use leverage to pump up their exposure by 15x, and pretty much eat up a vast majority of the industry's profits.

These guys invest in EVERYTHING. Instruments you've heard of - stocks, bonds, forwards, futures, currencies, and instruments that you, me, or anyone else have never even heard of, much less know anything about: commodity future swaptions, FRA/OIS swaps, CLOs, exotic future options, p-notes, index/commodity/equity exposures, and a huge array of OTC (over-the-counter) instruments that no regular investor would ever have access to.

Why I bring this up: the financial markets are rigged. 99% of the investing public has access to services such as basic brokerages, 401k/IRA's, mutual funds, pension plans, etc. Some of these services, especially pension funds, will invest into hedge funds, who take an additional 2 and 20 (meaning 2% of assets plus 20% of capital gains).

What this means is that if you go any of the traditional retail routes, you are utterly screwed facing off against the hedge funds.

First, you are paying exorbitant fees. Commissions on every stock trade. Mutual fund managers taking a cut - an annual % cut, as well as a % per profit cut. If these managers (i.e. pension plans) invest in another fund, that fund is also taking another % cut. You're down 2% the minute you invest your money.

Next, if you're doing the investing yourself, you're paying ridiculous spreads. The bid/ask spread of a stock will cause you to be down another 2-3% the minute you buy the stock. For example, if you're buying a share of company at $4.25, you can sell back at only $4.15.

Furthermore, you have absolutely no chance in terms of access to the best services. Hedge funds have a direct line to investment bank's institutional brokerage teams - these are the guys that spend day and night sucking up to hedge funds, trying to get them the best deals at the cheapest rates. This means that while you're buying stocks and bonds, hedge funds are getting special rights, warrants, sweetheart deals, private placement deals, options, bigger discounts on bonds, and much better bulk commission rates and lower spreads on stocks. If you're paying 4.25$ for a 4.15$ stock, they are paying something like 4.16$. And they are eating alive your profits because when the stock goes up to $4.30, they can activate another warrant to purchase 20m shares at $4.25, diluting the value of your shares.

Next, you lack information and exposure. You have no idea what is going on in the market besides what you see on the news - while hedge funds have analysts working around the clock and a bunch of service providers who give minute-by-minute analysis of their portfolio opportunities and weaknesses in all markets with exposures to nearly everything. Meaning, if there is an opportunity in the real estate market (i.e. legislation), it might take you weeks to get in - hedge funds will have gotten in the minute the legislation was passed. Furthermore, when IPOs come out for companies, hedge funds get top billing on the primary market shares - which means investment banks are selling directly to them. Once the secondary market becomes available, hedge funds are up 15-20% on these investments, sometimes within hours.

Finally, you have no capital compared to these hedge funds. The people who invest in these hedge funds are not just the 1%, they are the 0.1%. These are the guys with 500million dollar bank accounts and the ability to do whatever the fuck they want. Hedge funds know this, and they invest without having to care about whether their clients can pay the rent or send their kids to college. All of that is irrelevant. Their sole purpose is to earn money, not to mitigate risk.

What does this all mean? It means the hedge fund industry is making a gigantic proportion of the profits. The top .1% is earning nearly half of the profits in the industry, through not just hedge funds, but other similar vehicles.

The finance industry is a complete scam, designed to funnel money from the 99% investing public into the hands of the top .1%. Sure, some of you will make good money, but stastically, the rest of us will lose, and who is feeding off us? Hedge funds, and the .1%. You have better odds going to a casino and playing slots, the worst-paying game in the house, but still better than the stock market.

Also, the government is in bed with the financial industry. Tax loopholes give hedge funds and other top players the ability to write off losses and not pay taxes on gains for years at a time. For income they derive from the hedge fund (profits), they pay only 15%, rather than the 35% income tax charged to most people earning 80k and above. Meanwhile, you have to pay taxes for not just your own income but also capital gains.

The worst part by far is that the government "encourages" you to put your money into your 401k through 'tax exemptions', which basically puts your money with the lowest tier of the financial industry - pension funds, retail wealth managers, and retail asset managers. These guys have shit strategies like long-only or domestic equity (which means they only invest in American stocks), and have nowhere near the capability and reach of hedge funds. These guys are even more likely to lose your money than you are, and even worse is they will take a 2.35% cut while doing so. And you get penalized when you try to take your money out early. How f***ed up is that.

In other words, if you aren't in the .1%, you have no access to the derivatives markets, you have no access to the special deals that hedge funds and other wealthy investors get, and you have no access to the resources, information, strategic services, tax exemptions, and capital that the top .1% is getting.

If you have any questions about what some of the concepts above mean, ask and I will try my best to answer. I'm a first-year analyst on wall street, and based on what I see day in and day out, I support the OWS movement 100%.

tl;dr: The finance industry funnels money from the masses to the ultra rich, through vehicles like hedge funds which dominate all of the financial markets.


Source: An anonymous Hedge Fund Analyst that works on Wall Street
URL: http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/muqzv/wall_of_text_i_work_in_wall_street_and_work_in
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